Working
SW review tomorrow. I'm working on the drama screenplay right now. It's near completion of a 1st draft, which will then be forwarded to Ray for smarmy suggestions and ideas (Don't worry, I'll get you some character info too!). After that, it gets sent to Josh and Gabe for their thoughts and ideas. Its working title is The Price of Constance. If you can think of a better title (after you've read the script), then by all means, let me know.
20 comments:
Hey Brock,
Here's the stuff you asked for. Firstly, good job on THE PRICE OF CONSTANCE. I like the title, too. I made some minor readjustments. I must warn whoever's reading this that there's some strong-ish language in my version: http://www.thegovernormovie.com/thepriceofconstance.htm - Among the changes I made is a reimagined ending, because I honestly didn't buy that this man who kills "young or old" and "innocent and guilty" is going to grow a heart over some fifteen year old girl simply because she's collateral damage. Let me know what you think now. Keep in mind I've only done this revision in like, a half an hour, so it might not be top notch yet, but I think it's enough to get the conversational ball rolling. Now, as for my rewrite of the infamous "Thor's Hammer" - I give you these two versions: First, what Eric sent us - http://www.thegovernormovie.com/thorshammerericsundt.htm -- clearly we found ourselves in a pickle. So, following his rules and staying true to his characters, here's what we came up with: http://www.thegovernormovie.com/thorshammerscript.htm -- this version was promptly rejected by Eric. C'est la vie!
I go out for a veggie sandwich and come back to find the revised Price of Constance waiting. Today's a good day.
I'll throw up some thoughts soon. I'm glad you liked it. I will say that I think you made the screenplay a lot tighter and gave the Assassination a better motivation towards the end. Well done.
Brock, now you know you count on me for no holds barred criticism, right?
Comments:
1. Great screenplay in its own right. I wasn't expecting anything so well developed. I am very impressed. It's terrific. It also happens to be miles away from what I had in mind. :)
2. First impression: Leon 2: Return of The Professional. Hitman protecting sweet young girl (that's debatable considering she swears)? Are we crossing the line from homage to direct appropriation? Considering what it is, The Price of Constance is a very cool title.
3. Do you want to involve minors in this violence? I'm skiddish as it is with the level of violence involved. Not sure about involving kids in this. I'm not against a young girl being the "intended" target, but a photo might suffice. It might be the breaking point where he becomes sure of his decision to get out.
4. Production Note: I think the street scenes are good, but perhaps more complicated that we can pull off for this production. I know I can get us a cafe, we can do a dark interior for his planning and introspection, and I'm hunting down a good interior for the final scene.
5. Inspiration - I'd like to see the whole thing in Italian. In fact, I think it would be an interesting challenge to look at this as an Italian film, and keep it tight enough to where it could pass for one. Considering our success in pulling off AGTC, I think we can do this. I'd actually like to check out some Italian films to get some inspiration for the look of the film. If none of you have seen any Italian films, anything European would be a good influence. Anything by the Dardenne brothers, Claude Chabrol (the French Hitchcock), or even Noi, in terms of look.
6. Title of the screenplay I would have written: Il Dritto Uomo (The Straight Man).
7. I'd prefer more focus on the V.O. Get metaphorical with it. Don't be afraid to get trite... it'll be in Italian.
8. I'd like to see all of the character development come from the V.O. and the physical acting, not the dialog. What's in this guys head? I think your character notes, which I have not seen, might be able to contribute directly to the writing of the V.O. I'd actually be comfortable with zero dialog until "Scuzi." I pictured a much more psychological, atmospheric study of the man, his ways, and his inner motivations.
9. Play to our strengths. We are on a short schedule with this one. I think we will be much more successful in pulling this off with less dialog, especially considering this will be Marco's first role. Keep it simple in acting and locations.
10. An "assassin" is a killer, but it implies he kills prominent people, especially government officials. I'd say our protagonist is more of a hitman, a hired gun. He's a classy hitman, but a hitman, no less.
11. Everyone absolutely needs to come over and see the hit sequence in Fallen Angels by Wong Kar Wai. It has elements of Hong Kong action, but filtered through WKW, who is a maker of pensive art films, so it's a unique combination. If possible, I'd like to model our hit scene out of that one. Here is a pic:
http://www.wongkarwai.net/images/leon2.jpg
Oddly, the actors name in this film was Leon Lin. Weird.
RGL, we tend to avoid obscenities and graphic violence (though I think we're generally OK with some implied violence, more in a Hitchcockian style). I can't speak for Brock, but that's my standard for projects that I choose to work on. The more I think about it, the more I realize how much of an "art film" guy I am.
1. Glad you think it is well developed. Yes, it’s almost completely different from your idea. To be perfectly honest, I half intended that. Not to be “playing against” the team, but I wanted something that at least presented a different perspective of the idea. I figured you and Gabe would be writing straight from the adaptation of your idea, so I tried something different. Oh well.
2. Yeah, that’s one of my biggest personal criticisms with the film. It’s a direct rip-off. I felt that I could off-set that by writing the screenplay with my own slant. Apparently, it’s just too noticeable. That’s probably one of the biggest things working against this story.
3. When you phrase it like that, no I do not want to involve kids with this violence. With regards to the violence itself, you intended him to basically take out the boss in the end, right? A more subtle, implied tone can easily be implied with a little guidance.
4. I felt you would say that. And yeah, as much as I like the way those scenes flow, you’re right. I figured tackling that part of the film gorilla style would work, but it may be beyond us. You can always replace that stuff with Marco’s planning session.
5. I do remember your original inspiration for this film. But, as you said, I kind of threw it out the window for this version. Why? Well, like I said, your version would ultimately best communicate the kind of tone, style and look you were going for. Instead of churning out your idea, I took it from a different angle. Ultimately, I think the consideration of this as a pure Italian film is the better take. I should say though, that all of Marco’s lines are supposed to be in Italian. He doesn’t speak English. I wanted a language barrier between him and the girl.
6. I like that title. It sounds European. Which is exactly what we want.
7. Yeah, more V.O. would be good.
8. Absolutely. I wanted to have a running monologue with the action, as if Marco is commenting upon things as they happen. But, I think the approach you want, is a purely introspective look at the character. Rather then picking up clues to his character by his commentary on the action happening around him, we’re directly fed his character through the inner monologue, right? That makes absolute sense. I just didn’t attempt it.
9. Understood.
10. He’s a hitman. I just called him an Assassin because I figured no one would nit-pick that point. Heh heh. Good eye.
11. I probably should have waited to write anything until I saw that scene. Whoops. I got impatient. Oh well. At the very least, I have a vague idea of what you mean in your descriptions of the scene. I’ll have to see it for myself though before I can fully appreciate it I think.
Note: I also tend to stay away from profanity and mature R rated things like that. I’m just a softie at heart. (Awwwwww) I was also going to add that if we were to make this, it would have to be appropriate for TV anyway. I think the profanity can be taken out without losing the dramatic impact between the characters.
All in all, it’s just my take. That’s it. It can be revised again to include your elements and outlook to the story, but I don’t think it’s worth the trouble. I’d rather see what Gabe comes up with, and perhaps you could even write out a screenplay if you have the time. I guess I just didn’t want to do a straight interpretation of your screenplay. And I gotta be honest here; I shouldn’t. If anyone should be cranking out a version of this story, you should, because, clearly you have a vision for it. That’s not sour grapes. I agree with your criticisms and your ideas for this story completely. I’m merely saying that you’re writing for an inspiration that I can’t completely connect with – because it’s your inspiration. You need to write it out.
RGL, wow, you did amazing things with the Thor's Hammer story. Very cool.
Brock, yeh, perhaps I was overcritical. I was critical from the standpoint thinking that you were trying to write up some of the ideas we discussed. But, no, it is intended to be different, and it is, and it is great in it's own right. So, with that in mind, all my criticism is invalid, because I made in correct assumptions.
More of the lauditory side, I think the interaction between the assassin and girl could be terrific, it certainly was in Leon. It's just so late in the game, I have to put on the Producer hat, and ask the tough questions, like can we get the acting firepower to pull that interaction off, which I just don't think we can.
I think you know me enough by now, that I can and will make things happen when I talk about them. It scares people sometimes. The things that normal people sit around and talk about, I go out and do, such as many of these films, starting a record label, promoting tours, publishing books. I make vision reality. So, whatever we decide on, for my part, I will will it into existance, if necessary.
Funny that you should mention doing the street scenes geurilla style, since we've discussed that before. The idea that if your actors know their lines there is no reason you couldn't just shoot a scene on a crowded sidewalk while people walked by. I have hyped that idea on a number of occassions, so, really, I am shooting down one of my own suggestions there. It's worth doing at some point, but probably not worth the risk for such an important scene.
It's a tough thing, though, we have here three or four or more talented filmmakers with different strengths in writing, shooting, directing, and acting, and all with different visions for the famed Marco hitman story. So, figuring out which one to do will not be easy.
However, you have forced my hand. If I want a shot at my vision, I'll have to write it out myself. No shortcuts. :)
Thanks, Josh! I'm glad someone appreciates the hard work we did turning Thor's Hammer into something quasi-watchable. I was sad to see it won't see the light of day because apparently, "the script is locked down". How a script can be "locked down" before we write it is anyone's guess, but that's the way he works, I assume. I just don't really see the point of asking us to do our take on it if he's not going to want anything changed. Aaaanyway...as for the swearing issue -- sorry if I offended anyone. Fair warning: you might not be so pleased when you see THE GOVERNOR, because the characters swear and are pretty violent. I do admire your standpoint though - violence and swear words can be a crutch for easy drama and I don't support them when the sole intent behind it is "making it cool". However, I'm a bit stubborn when it comes to trying to be as pure to the reality of a world of the story as possible, even when working in the exhalted universes of genre movies. In The Governor, for example, I don't feel anything is gratuitous -- even when it might feel like it, I have a perfectly rationalized thoguht process to justify every action. I try to always opposse exploitation of any sort, and I think actors are something to be cherished, not used. I wouldn't make an actor do anything that their character doesn't absolutely HAVE to do. And if the actor wants out, no hard feelings. But at the same time, I am commited to keeping the character as I write it unless I'm otherwise persuaded by convincing arguments I haven't thought of yet. As far as voice over goes, I try to stay away from it as much as possible -- it can be brilliant sometimes, but 99% of the time, it's just lazy screenwriting. It's much more fun to come up with visual interpretations of the character's inner world, in my opinion, because that takes advantage of the visual nature of film as a medium. Plus, all my writing teachers begged me to "show, don't tell" so I'm trying to keep honest to that. hehe. Thanks for the great feedback and thanks for the compliment on Thor's Hammer! It's great to be peripherally involved with a project from the good folks at MATTER OF CHANCE. And of course, if you decide to scrape EVERYTHING I've written, I understand completely and there's no silly things in me such as hard feelings. I've scrapped other people's work before, I know it feels kind of sucky, but when things gotta go, they gotta go!
And we're totally both online at the same time. Cool!
I'm out of the loop! I have to manage the Production and Distribution Center this week and it makes me super busy! What is this work stuff!? Oh well, hopefully I'll have time at home to check this stuff out. Yeah, right! If I can keep that baby down!
I wouldn’t say you were overly critical or anything. In fact, if you’re going to be critical, be overly critical, because at least I can consider all questionable points and go with the criticisms I agree with. Yeah, it was intended to be different, but it was writing for an idea. So no, your criticisms are not invalid. And don’t say they are. Maybe I got too defensive, and if I did, I apologize. Your assumptions weren’t incorrect because I was working off your idea. I just took it my own way. That happens all the time when directors or producers contract writers to shape up a screenplay based off an idea. And often, the writer plays up the screenplay in an interesting, but ultimately incorrect, way. I think that’s simply the case here. To be honest, even though you didn’t ask me to write something out, I still think it’s the scenario of me as the writer trying to produce something for you as the director (And I’ll still give your take on the story a shot if you’d like).
I also have to apologize for blatantly throwing out the voice-over idea. Yeah, I’m writing my own concept of the story, but that wasn’t cool on my part. I think part of the reason why I played out a lot of the stuff instead of voice-overing it was because it has been drilled into my head again and again and again to not use voice over. But in this story, it’s absolutely essential to have the voice-over. I’m not an experienced enough writer yet to have full confidence in breaking the rules to comply with the style an idea is trying to convey. So, I apologize for that.
Yeah, I’m glad you ask tough, producing questions like that, because, honestly, I forget what we’re working with. Not that we’re working with anything to be pitied; for a bunch of suburban dwellers with a few computers, some movie-curious friends turned actors, a camera and a general idea of how to make a movie, we’ve done some terrific things. I overreach sometimes though when I flesh out my ideas. I need to have someone like you telling me to pull back and remember what it is we can do at this point and what it is we can’t. It is late in the game. We really need to just come up with something that works and is in reaching distance. I can’t fault you for realizing that.
To be honest, it does scare me. I never said anything about it though…heh heh. But yeah, it’s nice to have you on our side. You do make things happen, and that helps a lot. I don’t want to absolutely burden you though by throwing out an idea that’s not only a) a little late out of the starting gate, but also b) a little too ambitious in terms of acting power. I want to make something that takes a bit of a challenge, but doesn’t force you to will anything impossible into existence. Throwing out “Lawrence of Arabia meets Leon” is unfair on my part.
I think the general vision is still the same, but we’re all going to try something different. I know I did and I know Gabe will. But really, let’s not beat around the bush: This is your baby. I apologize if it feels like I’m forcing your hand. You’re very talented and you have a strong concept of the story – I’m just asking you to write it out.
If it's worth anything, I liked Brock's script very much and I think the less V.O., the better. Plus it'd be great if it had more swearing and violence. Wouldn't that be COOL?! hehe.
(I do mean that about the Brock script, though. And the V.O.)
I'm glad you like it. But hey, it's just a take on an idea. We've only see this screenplay -- I can't wait to see what Josh and Gabe have.
From what little I have read in screenwriting books, one of the first things that is impressed is that V.O. rarely works and is an overused crutch. I'm sure it's taught the same in the schools.
Maybe I have just seen too many great V.O. films. Obviously, it is a large part of the Wong Kar Wai style that I so dearly love. Also, one of my other favorites, Gattaca uses it throughout.
But, to be clear, I'm with RGL on the use of film as a visual medium. I totally want to show the character through his actions and mannerisms. It's dialog that I have a distaste for. I like it when things go unsaid, V.O. or not, and when we see people go about their lives, without this compelling Hollywood drive to advance the story with every shot you put on the screen. You'll get that from the many foreign films that I like so much.
As for it being decided that I should direct, I have to disagree. I don't think Gabe has been given a shot yet, if he wants to direct, and even if it comes down to me directing, it's only on the condition that you co-direct with me. I need you there. I think Intense Math was a success because of the collaboration. Also because we work with such a small crew in such a rushed manner, there is so much to be done, one cannot direct alone and do everything else. Are you with me?
Yes, Voice Overs are mostly a no-no, BUT they can work so well when done right and be HORRIBLE when done wrong. Funny you mentioned Gattaca, I just watched that the other night. That one fell in the middle for me in regards to V.O. It wasn't bad that it distracted but it didn't really add much. Bladerunner is an excellent example of how terrible V.O. was. The Director's Cut without V.O. is like a whole other movie.
But, I can't really think of a GREAT one, though Raising Arizona had great V.O. from Nic Cage, but it was only during his dream sequences, which were only two or three?
They are rarely done well in American cinema. All WKW films use it at some points, often heavily. To me, it's great. However, there is the language buffer. I'm in capable of properly evaluating the performance of the V.O. because they are speaking Chinese. Which is why I want to do the film in Italian, to create that buffer. It may not impress Italian-speaking people, but it'll feel right to most others.
Well, you know how I feel about voice over. I'm a huge supporter of it, but only in foreign films. It all sounds cheesy in English. I covered this to some extent in the following post:
http://tryavoidance.blogspot.com/2004/07/why-i-make-chinese-films.html
I can totally see your point. I remember people saying CROUCHING TIGER, HIDDEN DRAGON was laughed at in Chinese theatres -- and it makes sense when you try to say stuff like, "nothing we touch has permanence" out loud. That's one of the MANY reasons I thought CROUCHING TIGER was overrated. For my part, I'm in love with writing dialogue. If one can find the mixture of something that pushes the plot forward without being on-the-nose expository (and especially when one can do that with a memorable line), it is just as good as it gets for me, as far as writing goes.
I must correct myself --
Doing all those things I described AND getting paid for my efforts - that's as good as it gets.
If Gabe wants to direct, that's great. But if you want me to co-direct with you, that's fine too. I'm always with you.
I'm reworking the screenplay with your suggestions. You still need to write your version, and so does Gabe. I just want to give it one more college try. I'll give it to you guys tonight.
Or not...Heh. Maybe I'll throw it up or something if I get it finished.
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